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In Reply to: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FORGET A MESSAGE BOARD AND DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!! posted by stefan on June 22, 2001 at 20:30:47:
Sorry for the rudeness in my previous post. Sometimes I just get so frustrated seeing the indoctrinations of PFS in people, mainly because I'm the one that used to teach it.
First on your term comment, keep in mind that I'm $4 less with almost twice the coverage, so it is nowhere near the same thing!
About the lawsuit thing. This is not one agent that was sued, it was PRIMERICA, as a whole (a class action), which means the abuse was wide spread, not just one agent.
On the insignificant income bit, you nailed it right on the head! You only have ONE product, when in all actuality there is a need for several, so you can't possibly do what is right for the client 100% of the time if you don't have enough products to serve the need.
"most people don't make it here. most people don't want to"? Are you kidding? Are you saying that most people don't want to be successful? You say that there are "thounsands of people who are successful at it", yet on your own companies website, it states there are just over 1,400 who are making decent money. That is not "thousands". What about the 99,000+ that AREN'T making any money. Do you think they are doing PFS because they "don't want" to be successful?
I left because I started thinking for myself and stopped listening to the one sided and hypocritical preaching that was going on at PFS! (By the way, I stated I was with PFS for 6 years, not that I was Regional for 6 years). How can a company teach it's reps to bad mouth CV insurance companies and there agents when they COMPLETELY (100%) own a company that sells those products and makes millions from them each year? How can a company teach its reps to bad mouth credit card companies when they are in bed with Citibank, one of the largest credit card companies in the world? How can they teach their reps to bad mouth "regular" mortgage companies when the mortgage companies they refer their clients to (citifinancial/Associates) is under investigation for predatory lending practices. I could not, in good conscience market under these circumstances!
As far as the system being broke, I believe it is. When 98%+ people quit ANY program, not just PFS, something has to be wrong. If the system worked fine, do you think that many people would leave? I don't.
Why didn't I move to another office? Because it was worse there! People were leaving the other offices and coming to mine. In other words, you could say that my office was the best of the worst.
Just because somebody can't do what I can, doesn't make them bad. But when a company/agent goes into a situation and convinces the client that they need product A because that's all they market, when what they really is product B, that is bad and that is what happens at PFS. You only have 1 life product and what mortgage product, so what gets sold, those products.
On to your numbers.
1 - I agree with you. But if, as a PFS rep who is trained in only ONE side of the story, you sit down with someone who knows less about the story than you do, it makes the PFS rep look like s/he knows what they're doing. But the truth is, they don't because they have only been trained one life product, one mortgage product, etc. and they are the PFS products, so that's what they preach.
2 - Sometimes I do. But most of the time it makes more sense to do a majority of it on an individual policy and supplement the rest.
3 - That is what mortgages are, borrowed money for a set period of time, 15, 20, 30 years, etc. Primerica's mortgages are designed to do the same thing. You say that "most people pay their bills in dollars not interest", what do you think is the major factor in how much money they will pay? It's the rate, plain and simple. Are you telling me that if you applied for a $100,000, 30 year, biweekly loan with PFS at 8.x% and I showed you the EXACT SAME loan at 6.75%, you would go with PFS? If yes, why? I can just about guarantee that my Truth in Lending doc will show less money paid out in interest than the PFS one. Bottom line is that the interest rate is the MAJOR FACTOR in figuring how much will be paid!
No offence here, but the reason I didn't comment on the research you found is because it won't do any good to argue that with you until you REALLY do some outside research instead of quoting from the books that your RVP has told you to read. There are plenty of books I could quote from that state exactly the opposite from the one you quoted from. Has your RVP ever told you to read those? No, because if you truly reasearch the subject, you'll find that what you are being taught as PFS is a sham. I guarantee it!
It is my own company. And no I don't have a company with $900 billion in assets to back it up, but neither do you. Look on the citigroup website. It specifically states that each company is independent and responsible for their own stuff. Bottom line there is that if an agent of PFS, or PFS itself gets sued, citigroup will have nothing to do with it. The agent and/or PFS will have to provide for it's own.
I'm really not worried about 100,000 people doing the same thing as me, especially with PFS. You see, PFS has already tried a lot of the stuff and it didn't work. Some things just won't work with a pyramid type structure.
You are correct though, I do have a passion for helping people. The only difference between now and when I was at PFS are that I TRULY own my business, which you don't at PFS (a whole other subject) and I can truly offer the best and lowest priced products for their entire financial need.
: bravo!! i can't keep this up. you're definately better at the rude comments than i. being negative takes too much energy from me and i can't keep it up. so do you mind if i take the high road? good.
: for starters...
: yea for your term. if you can do that then great. and since you are $4 cheaper than us i'd say we both a pretty fine product. so in the end, after slamming our super expensive term...we actually do the same thing.
: the lawsuit thing i have to admit i was reacting emotionally instead of rationally. ofcourse there are suits out there. i didn't think there were but i was proven wrong and i concede. but in this particular case...it sounds like the agent was stupid for not telling the client about higher premiums. level term IS more expensive in the beginning ....because it levels out over time. the premiums are the same through out the life of the policy so the high premiums even out when the client is at a higher risk and would have to pay more in premiums on a cash value policy. i you ask me...i'd sue the stupid agent too.
: yes our income is insignificant to citigroup's. that's because the only product we have is our life insurance. that's the only thing under the primerica name. we are the marketing branch and we market the services of other companies within the corporation. so we make the other companies money so you'll have to go back and find out how much we bring in for the other companies and then add ours to it and then you'll get an accurate count of what we do. and besides ecomonic benefits that we provide to some companies in citigroup, primerica and sandy weill are the reason citigroup exists. i think it's kinda hard to earn $77,694,000,000 if you don't exist.
: yah...most people don't make it here. most people don't want to. most people can't handle the rejection, the ridicule, the failure. for most people it's easier to quit something than to fight for it. i do this because i want to do something special with my life and my family. i'm in it to change people's lives and build a life for myself that i can't do if i have a job. i don't want a boss, i don't want someone telling me how much i'm worth and i don't want to work for someone for 40 years and at the end of it have 40 years worth of paycheck stubbs. sometimes change is too tough for people, and although most people probably don't want a boss either, they fear change more. you're right, most people quit. but everyone that starts with primerica is capable of making it if they work hard enough. no one said it was going to be easy. as you can tell we have a big mountain to climb when the world thinks you're out to screw them.
: but you believed the same as i did. and i'm curious...what happened to you? why'd you quit. not to be rude (cuz remember i'm done with that now) ...i want to know what happened. email me seperately if you want but you said that you were a regional for 6 years. why didn't you go to RVP? how could you not have? in our office people don't stay regional for 6 months. we've promoted four RVP's in the last year and we're going to promote 5 more within the next year. you said that primerica the system is broke. but i know that's not true. we do the same thing that you do except you have more products at a more competitive price. good for you. you know what that means...you believe in helping people and you're doing it on your own by using the same philosopy that primerica does. and you know the system can't be broken if there are thounsands of people who are successful at it. i wouldn't want primerica to be easy...that would mean everyone would do it, and not everyone should do it. people who want to make money here never last so they quit, it's the people who want to make a difference who stay. so i'm still curious. it sounds like the system was broken where you were. you "sound" bitter. i would be too if i poured 6 years of my life into it and got no reward. the system works but it just didn't work in your RVP's office and it sounds like you blamed it on the company and not the people who were there. it's easy to point the finger but 3 are pointing at yourself. so what i want to know is what was so bad in your office? what made you give up completely? why didn't you go to another office...it could have been different there? and don't tell me it was because of the principles of the company, you took the same idea...the very essence of it and went to do it for yourself to help people in your way. so we both see eye to eye on the concepts. if we have 3 good products for the client and honor those 3 products when we help people then great. we don't have to have a full service line to help people. and just because we don't have one doesn't make us bad. does that make banks bad because they can't do life insurance or mutual fund investing. by your definition anyone who can't do what you can do for the client is "bad" and that means 98% of the companies on earth suck because they can't offer more products. that's too bad for them but great for you and walmart.
: but enought of my rant. to get back to some facts i'll post some questions to you real quick cuz i can't keep wasting my time like this.
: 1. i wouldn't sit down with someone who didn't know what he was doing. so if i met a primerica agent who didn't know his ass from a hole in the wall i wouldn't tell him jack either. point being our concepts are good but you can't measure the heart or the desire of a man, so you give everyone a chance to be special and the cream will rise to the top and the rest will quit.
: 2. if you can do term so cheap...then why do they need group coverage through their jobs as supplemental coverage? why not just cover them completely with term that they can control and not their company?
: 3. i still disagree on the rate issue. i think it's more important about how much you pay back and how long you're going to be in debt. i've seen 6.75% loans that keep people in debt for 30 years. so what makes yours different is that you can offer them bi-weekly payments. without that ... that same low interest keeps them in debt forever. the additions to your loan make your interest rate a big deal. take away those additions and your rate is the same as everyone else's. the LOAN is what's special about what you and i do...not the interest. i do admit you have 2% on us...but most people pay their bills in dollars not interest. so again i would have to say the the amount paid back to the lender is the most important. whoever can give the lowest rate with the least amount of money paid back wins...and that's what's important.
: and last but not least...you never commented on the research i found on whole life policies and how they take advantage of people with estate planning. i may not be able to show someone how to hide their money from the government and creditor but i can show them what books to read to show them how. and i also know that they never need a whole life policy to protect their estate. that's like paying income taxes on money you haven't earned yet. if you're paying off estate taxes by paying for an expensive whole life policy...that's like paying taxes on your estate before you die. i would just take some of the money and set it aside and let it accrue interest. then when the estate is to be passed on to the heirs...cash out the that side money and pay the estate taxes with that. if you're curious how to do that for your clients without setting them up on a whole life policy...pick up "FINANCIAL SELF-DEFENSE" by Charles Givens. he explains it better than me.
: and you're right again .... i don't have a clue what you do. what company do you work for? is it your own company? does is have a parent company that can back it with 900 billion in assets? i know that we can't do everything that you can right now, but i know what we have in store for the future and i know that we will soon be able to do what you can. so i'm curious as to what you will do when 100,000 agents can do the same thing as you? hope you can continue helping people....it sounds like you have a general passion for helping others and so do i. we can sound off on this damn thing all day and never get anywhere. neither of us will ever give up. but i am curious to hear your PFS personal story. drop me a line. my email is on the return link to this response. until then...thanks for the agruements....